DISQUS

DISQUS Hello! Mobile Industry Review is using DISQUS, a powerful comment system, to manage its comments. Learn more.

Community Page

Mobile Industry Review

Daily news and opinion for 250,000 industry executives and mobile fanatics
Jump to original thread »
Author

Nokia N97: The Whatley POV

Started by Ewan · 7 months ago

So, the Nokia N97 eh? What do you think of THAT?!

Me? Hmm… Well, you all know what I thought of the last Nseries I laid my hands on and so when it comes to the newly announced Nokia N97, I approached with a certain amount of trepidation…
And my initial im ... Continue reading »

42 comments

  • Cj

    7 months ago

    I agree, that home screen's whats gotten me excited about the N97. That, and the formfactor. I cant wait to check one out up close !
    reply
  • Mac Morrison

    7 months ago

    i has a little play with one last month - its nice form alright - oddly it didn't seem as big as it looks in the comparison photos - i wouldnt of said it was bigger than the 5800 but apparently is!
    reply
  • James Whatley

    7 months ago

    What of the screen? Noticeable upgrade?
    reply
  • Mac Morrison

    7 months ago

    hard to say
    reply
  • Mac Morrison

    7 months ago

    theres alot to be excited about its a nice handset
    evolution not revolution.

    i think its hard to make giant leaps - esp while maintaining symbian s60
    reply
  • JonB

    7 months ago

    The widget homescreen looks very similar to the system on the N800/N810 range?
    reply
  • kerrypalringo

    7 months ago

    This looks to be the perfect device for Palringo.--call it "anyway, anyone messsaging"--anyway you're connected, any service, any network: the way we quickly connect with the people in our lives. Or in James' words, even easier to "get the word out."

    And, when our location appears on Symbian (very, very soon), then look out.....

    So we can;t wait to see Palringo loaded onto the N97!

    kerry ritz
    CEO
    Palringo
    reply
  • James Whatley

    7 months ago

    I see your Palringo and I raise you SpinVox... :P

    http://blog.spinvox.com/2008/12/02/nokia-n97-sp...
    reply
  • litmanlive

    7 months ago

    I'm second in line for this bad boy! Sounds like it covers all bases and as you say then some. By the time it comes out I think there will be more 8MP handsets on the market so it's something they should keep an eye on. I'm sure Apple are thanking Nokia now for seeing what they're going to be doing and trying to beat it.

    I welcome competition, it only makes the experience better for the consumer.

    An excited iPhone owner (whom all handsets previously had been Nokia)
    reply
  • Ben Smith

    7 months ago

    Gah... what a massive disappointment. The hardware will, I'm sure, be very good. Inside, however, will be a crap browser, crap gallery, crap PIM applications, crap access point handling, crap interface and crap media player.

    Power users can '3rd party' their way out of the problem, but frankly why should they have to?

    If I put this device next to my 3 year-old E61 too many of the same problems exist.

    FAIL.
    reply
  • PatrickatJPR

    7 months ago

    Come on Ben, get off the fence and say what you think ...
    reply
  • Ewan

    7 months ago

    Agreed, agreed, and thrice agreed Mr Smith. The fundamental problem with Nokia.
    reply
  • James Burland

    7 months ago

    OPK, please for the love of all that's good and pure in Finland, please just go with Android and be done with it already.
    reply
  • Mike Bradshaw

    7 months ago

    @whatleydude, i think i am closer to the front of the line than you being as i live in Espoo rather than London ;)

    I am seriously hoping that as Devices is now once again one devison, the build quality of the E series finally comes to the N series, and as both Whatley and Ben have said, Nokia *must* get the software correct for this as it comes out of the gate!
    reply
  • Phil

    7 months ago

    Ok, looks nice.

    My question is this:

    How does this fit in with the Internet Tablet line, eg. the N800, the N810.

    When I look at the pictures, this phone seems to have a very internet tablet feel about it.

    Nokia are still hiring Maemo engineers, and the new version of Maemo was said to have some very smart features.

    Is there any idea as to what chipset this runs on? Could it be the OMAP 3530?

    If so, we may be seeing two alternative OS options for this phone?
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    You've just GOT to laugh at the other comments here criticising software that is 6 months away from being complete (not counting future firmware updates) and that no one here has handled or use. You look real clever, guys...

    Rather than the "It's not totally perfect, therefore it's crap" tone that others like to take (people now rather insecure about that locked in iPhone contract they have, I'd wager) let's compare it to what else is out there. The iPhone is even more of a joke in comparison to the N97. The review above compares the N97 camera to some mythical 8MP device. How about vs. the iPhone camera, which now looks like it belongs on a Fisher Price toy from Argos? Hardware on N97 is universally superior, without ANY of the pointless iPhone restrictions. The N97 also makes Windows Mobile, and devices running it, pail into insignificance.

    Sure, N97 is not perfect (a Xenon flash would have been nice), and yes the iPhone UI is STILL slicker in some ways, but less so than it was (N97 touch has been improved to be more responsive to light touches). But this dismissive, reluctant-to-say-anything-nice attitude from so many is just blatant jealousy or that old habit of criticising the big boy that so many seem to revel in for no reason.

    And to finish, lets consider sales to date of the platforms. iPhone = 13 million (2G+3G). Symbian = about 250 million across over 297 phone models. 'Nuff said :)
    reply
  • Ewan

    7 months ago

    Alex, are you in the UK? I'd like to get you on camera discussing this as I think the viewpoint needs airing. Or perhaps you could do an op-ed on this?
    reply
  • James Whatley

    7 months ago

    Hi Alex,

    James Whatley here, author of 'the review above' (although it's clearly a 'point of view' based on stats and releases plus a large dose of prior experience with Nokia handsets).

    I thought I'd address some of your points:

    1) "The review above compares the N97 camera to some mythical 8MP device"

    - Where does it do that? I wrote the thing and I'm pretty sure no reference to 'mythical devices' was made. I think what I actually pointed out was that Nokia ARE NOT jumping on the 8MP bandwagon. Go have a read, I'll wait.

    2) 'How about comparing it to the iPhone camera?'

    - Well what'd be the point in that? We all know the iPhone camera is crap, everyone knows that and unfortunately this piece *isn't* an iPhone vs N97 post. Nor is it a link-baiting "OMG iPhone KillerZ!" post either for that matter. Merely a point of view on what I think could be the next big thing from Nokia.

    3) 'You've just got to laugh at the other comments here criticising software that is 6 months away from being complete (not counting future firmware updates)...'

    - So two things here; first that 6mths thing? Dude, have you *read* my N96 article? (I link to it in the piece above - go on, go take a look - I'll wait, again) That phone was 8mths in the making (from announcement to shipping) and by the time it got here the firmware was still guff!
    This is something that we have come to expect from Nokia and, as I said in the post above, (you have read it right?) it is something that I really, really hope they get right this time.

    The second point refers to the '..not counting firmware updates...' comment. Brilliant. Love it. Talk about give a guy enough rope. Dude, ask ANY normal high street walking, £30pcm spending mobile user 'Excuse me mate, what firmware have you got?' - 'Are you up to date?' - 'Have you updated your firmware lately?' - he/she will look at you like you are from Mars. I know this because I ask this question of my N95 owning buddies (and perfect strangers too - go on, go watch the show and you'll see - I don't mind waiting... ahem) on an almost weekly basis. Until Nokia get the PUSH UPDATES working (which they are close to - go look up a company called Red Bend, that's right - research - want me to wait here?) then this argument is a misnomer. I'm sorry, but it is.

    4) 'The N97 also makes Windows Mobile, and devices running it, pail into insignificance...'

    - Have you played with an N97? Do you *really* know that it makes Windows Mobile 'pail(sic) into insignificance' ? REALLY?

    5) 'Blatant Jealousy'

    - Right, where's that then? I'm dying to find out...

    6) 'And to finish, lets consider sales to date of the platforms. iPhone = 13 million (2G+3G). Symbian = about 250 million across over 297 phone models.'

    - Er... This is obviously a mathematical error. 297phones vs 2phones. What?! Sales of the former outweigh the latter?! WOW! What other breaking news stories are you going to bring us today?!

    *sigh*

    Caught me with 10mins to spare, I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls. Dude, if you're not here to have a constructive conversation then you're in the wrong place.

    Really. Ask ANYONE on this site, *I* am a Nokia Fan. The post above is based on opinion and experience. I don't mind discussing it at all, hell - that's why I write here - the discussion is always more interesting than the posts, but if you want to get offensive and act like a muppet - then you may as well be living in your own reality distortion field.

    Whatley out...
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    Wow, touched a nerve on two there ;-)

    Calm down Mr Whately, your preview is very good, and I'm sure you're an (un?)acknowledged Nokia expert. My response was only partially directed at your preview. It was also in response to the typical Nokia-bashing comments that we see here, and elsewhere. No that sentence does not mean I am a blind Nokia fanboy. I love to criticise as much as praise ;-) Seriously, I just like to see some fairness. I think there's too much judgment going on based on a press release, and yes, previous experience. Lets judge the device when it appears, and not give opinions (even implied ones) of a device none of us has handled, and that is 6 months out.

    OK, I'll take the 8MP camera sentence at face value and not read any implication into it. Fair enough.

    You hilight the N96 firmware. Sure, that had some problems. But it's not a leading S60 handset in terms of sales or mass market appeal. I disagree that most or all S60 based handsets are buggy to the point of significantly impacting usability (I'm not sure what other metric to use) upon release.

    Your reply about firmware updates is fair enough - Joe Bloggs often won't or can't do it. But you're missing the point that new firmwares make it into released handsets at the point of sale, so no updating required.

    N97 vs. WinMo, I'm comparing specs, user feedback over years, market share, and MS history of appallingly crap software (fact rather than bias).

    Jealousy - this is not a reference to anything you wrote (shock, horror! ;-) but rather a prevailing attitude amongst non-Nokia owners whenever Nokia release high-spec new handsets. iPhone owners for one seem to be constantly on the defensive, and yes, in more places than just this site and this story's comments.

    The comparison of sales of the platform is in response to the tide of undying hype and love that every new iPhone release enjoys, from users and from the media, and that WinMo and other platforms (e.g. Android) get to a lesser extent. It's an attempt to put just a teeny little bit of perspective on things. Just to say, lets look at things in context, shall we. Symbian constantly gets stick. And I agree with that stick pretty often - it's quite often deserved. But if there's going to be stick, there's got to be carrot too, and things like comparative sales figures of the different platforms do often get mentioned. iPhone-lovers (media or users) are most guilty of that, living as they do in a hype-distorted reality.

    > I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls
    Well, despite not being a fanboy troll (I think I've made a case for my points, you may disagree ;-), you have certainly entertained me, thank you.
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    Wow, touched a nerve on two there ;-)

    Calm down Mr Whately, your preview is very good, and I'm sure you're an (un?)acknowledged Nokia expert. My response was only partially directed at your preview. It was also in response to the typical Nokia-bashing comments that we see here, and elsewhere. No that sentence does not mean I am a blind Nokia fanboy. I love to criticise as much as praise ;-) Seriously, I just like to see some fairness. I think there's too much judgment going on based on a press release, and yes, previous experience. Lets judge the device when it appears, and not give opinions (even implied ones) of a device none of us has handled, and that is 6 months out.

    OK, I'll take the 8MP camera sentence at face value and not read any implication into it. Fair enough.

    You hilight the N96 firmware. Sure, that had some problems. But it's not a leading S60 handset in terms of sales or mass market appeal. I disagree that most or all S60 based handsets are buggy to the point of significantly impacting usability (I'm not sure what other metric to use) upon release.

    Your reply about firmware updates is fair enough - Joe Bloggs often won't or can't do it. But you're missing the point that new firmwares make it into released handsets at the point of sale, so no updating required.

    N97 vs. WinMo, I'm comparing specs, user feedback over years, market share, and MS history of appallingly crap software (fact rather than bias).

    Jealousy - this is not a reference to anything you wrote (shock, horror! ;-) but rather a prevailing attitude amongst non-Nokia owners whenever Nokia release high-spec new handsets. iPhone owners for one seem to be constantly on the defensive, and yes, in more places than just this site and this story's comments.

    The comparison of sales of the platform is in response to the tide of undying hype and love that every new iPhone release enjoys, from users and from the media, and that WinMo and other platforms (e.g. Android) get to a lesser extent. It's an attempt to put just a teeny little bit of perspective on things. Just to say, lets look at things in context, shall we. Symbian constantly gets stick. And I agree with that stick pretty often - it's quite often deserved. But if there's going to be stick, there's got to be carrot too, and things like comparative sales figures of the different platforms do often get mentioned. iPhone-lovers (media or users) are most guilty of that, living as they do in a hype-distorted reality.

    > I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls
    Well, despite not being a fanboy troll (I think I've made a case for my points, you may disagree ;-), you have certainly entertained me, thank you.
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    How annoying James, I wrote really a quite decent and witty reposte to your points and my bloody browser lost it all (FF 3.1 beta). Anyway, sorry to have got you in a twist about this, but, aside from the 8MP lark (I'll take your statement at face value then), I stand by all my earlier points.

    Fanboy troll? Not me squire. I dare venture that I am more informed than yourself about these things, but lets not turn this into a contest ;-)

    Kind regards,
    Alex
    reply
  • Mike42

    7 months ago

    Counting sales to date makes Grease a better record than Graceland.

    Or the Astra a better car than Aston Martin.

    'nuff said.
    reply
  • Ben Smith

    7 months ago

    I can see you're winding up to another Volvo love-in :-)
    reply
  • Mike42

    7 months ago

    There is yet to be made a handset/OS that can compare to the work of sublime form, function and all-round usability that is the Volvo Estate.

    But you knew I was going to say that.
    reply
  • Ben Smith

    7 months ago

    The software's not 6 months away. It's S60 v5 which we can (have) all played with in the 5800. Reliability and performance may improve but basic function won't.

    I'm reluctant to say anything nice because Nokia, a class leader as you point out, should do better on its software. Hardware, is I agree, very good from Nokia.
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    The software is 6 months away. Unless you can buy it today, and with a stated release of 6 months, then it's 6 months away. Lots of time to change/improve/bug fix.
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    The software is 6 months away. Unless you can buy it today, and with a stated release of 6 months, then it's 6 months away. Lots of time to change/improve/bug fix.
    reply
  • Ben Smith

    7 months ago

    But not to replace the entire e-mail app, web browser etc. You're talking about refining the OS - I'm saying the basic way it does some things is crap.
    reply
  • James Whatley

    7 months ago

    Alex - See my comments above re: Your '6mths away' argument.
    reply
  • Alex Kerr

    7 months ago

    Ben and James, I'm saying you're wrong. You may not like the design of the software, but most consumers would not agree - sales figures back this up. 6 months is plenty of time to iron out the bulk of any problems (and what problems are there exactly? - this is all nonsensical speculation seeing as none of us have used the thing!)

    James, I need to be reading reviews, not uninformed and biased speculation based on your reading a press release, whether I've touched a raw nerve with my response or not. I look forward to reading your balanced review when the device is out. And if it's crap, I'll be first to ask Nokia to do a bit better next time - and anyway, the market will doubtless vote with it's wallet.

    All the best!
    reply
  • DominicTravers

    7 months ago

    Alex.

    Nokia have excellent sales figures DESPITE their operating system. People rightly buy them for the good looks, excellent ergonomics and bombproof reliability. My party piece when debating hardware with iPhone users is to throw my 6500 classic at the wall and invite them to do the same with their iPhone. To date i have only had to glue the plastic top piece back down and it still works flawlessly.

    I do not and will not use an S60 device because the usability at all levels of the operating system is absolutely rubbish. S60 always requires pouring over the manual to figure out how to do simple tasks and figure out where this and that setting has moved to since the preceding N something or other. The fact that there is a constant too and fro between third party developers and the Firmware updates because one breaks a piece of functionality and then the OS update breaks the app etc makes a total mockery of all the hard work Nokia do designing and building great hardware.

    I hope that the newly formed Symbian Foundation will correct this cycle of FAIL but really suspect that it can't/won't. Just give up with your flaky code and get with the programme. Either write your own highly optimised and streamlined custom Linux OS or bite the bullet and use the one you can have right now. Android.

    Oh yes, Alex Kerr. I for one would really like you to disclose what your vested interest in Nokia/Symbian is, care to share?
    reply
  • DominicTravers

    7 months ago

    S60 is a dog of an Operating System that requires the constitution of Barbara Woodhouse to train over a period of months via a multitude of firmware updates and multiple instances of FAIL. The hardware however looks great. I will happily pay £50 per year for a solid compile of Android that runs on this from a third party. If anyone can offer me this I will have the nirvana of hardware and software that is usable.
    reply
  • Ben Smith

    7 months ago

    What he said. DT FTW!
    reply
  • TerenceEden

    7 months ago

    So, basically it's a tarted up N810 but running S60 rather than Maemo Linux.

    The problem - as I see it - is that Nokia just doesn't have the focus for something like this. They have too many phones with too many disparate options to begin to have a comprehensive strategy.

    Look at the N810 - a great device which is floundering because the 6* people who were working on it full time have now moved to other things. There's a rabid fan community who are hamstrung by Nokia's lack of effort.

    I want to like this device - but I'm afraid it will be an N95 8GB style disappointment. Yes, that's right, disappointment. A device with so much promise which is ultimately let down by a company who want me to upgrade my hardware on the promise that they'll get it right next time.

    Hmmmm.... I'm more bitter than I thought. Time to step away from the keyboard.

    T
    *I guess
    (I am obliged to say that I work for Vodafone - but this is my personal opinion.)
    reply
  • Mac Morrison

    7 months ago

    reply
  • ilicco

    7 months ago

    i'll bring one to Tuttle next time i am down...
    reply
  • James Whatley

    7 months ago

    You bet your ass you will.
    reply
  • mydogminton

    7 months ago

    Good "blind-preview". Any buzz about when this might come out? Is it going to be another 8-month, deer gestating wait?
    reply
  • HeavyLight

    7 months ago

    Nokia's N97 demo video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2O2Li74EYew
    Nokia Conversations' "the great Fondle Video":http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-elt8MN3I

    I'm very impressed with how far Nokia have come but I'm also in the hopeful but sceptical camp.
    reply
  • Joe Cooper

    7 months ago

    Nice preview...
    I like the look of this, a lot. I have recently bought an iPhone despite being a bit of a Nokia lover (I live in Japan and the iPhone looked like the best choice, Nokias are available, but not well supported by the carrier, Softbank). What I used to love about Nokia was the ease-of-use, the interface and the fact that I could get geeky and customise it myself. Apple seem to have nailed this.
    If I was in the UK now, I would be regretting my decision, because this phone looks like exactly what I would want. It just remains to be seen if it is as ergonomic and magical as it could be.

    Also: am I the only one that is glad his distractions are a few button-presses away, rather than constantly tempting him?
    reply
  • Micky

    7 months ago

    I have started saving for the N97 already!
    reply
  • kosso

    6 months ago

    nice piece James.
    The beauty of the widgetized home screen is also that it should be based on the Web RunTime Kit which the recent N-Series devices support. And best thing about this? You only need to know how to write html and program some simple Javascript to build an app. Nice. :)) - Not a lot of people know that.

    I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of these. Having fallen in love with the N85 way before I got one, then loving the N800 and N810, it's the perfect hybrid of these, for me (I have never had an E Series)
    reply

Add New Comment

Returning? Login