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evolution not revolution.
i think its hard to make giant leaps - esp while maintaining symbian s60
And, when our location appears on Symbian (very, very soon), then look out.....
So we can;t wait to see Palringo loaded onto the N97!
kerry ritz
CEO
Palringo
http://blog.spinvox.com/2008/12/02/nokia-n97-sp...
I welcome competition, it only makes the experience better for the consumer.
An excited iPhone owner (whom all handsets previously had been Nokia)
Power users can '3rd party' their way out of the problem, but frankly why should they have to?
If I put this device next to my 3 year-old E61 too many of the same problems exist.
FAIL.
I am seriously hoping that as Devices is now once again one devison, the build quality of the E series finally comes to the N series, and as both Whatley and Ben have said, Nokia *must* get the software correct for this as it comes out of the gate!
My question is this:
How does this fit in with the Internet Tablet line, eg. the N800, the N810.
When I look at the pictures, this phone seems to have a very internet tablet feel about it.
Nokia are still hiring Maemo engineers, and the new version of Maemo was said to have some very smart features.
Is there any idea as to what chipset this runs on? Could it be the OMAP 3530?
If so, we may be seeing two alternative OS options for this phone?
Rather than the "It's not totally perfect, therefore it's crap" tone that others like to take (people now rather insecure about that locked in iPhone contract they have, I'd wager) let's compare it to what else is out there. The iPhone is even more of a joke in comparison to the N97. The review above compares the N97 camera to some mythical 8MP device. How about vs. the iPhone camera, which now looks like it belongs on a Fisher Price toy from Argos? Hardware on N97 is universally superior, without ANY of the pointless iPhone restrictions. The N97 also makes Windows Mobile, and devices running it, pail into insignificance.
Sure, N97 is not perfect (a Xenon flash would have been nice), and yes the iPhone UI is STILL slicker in some ways, but less so than it was (N97 touch has been improved to be more responsive to light touches). But this dismissive, reluctant-to-say-anything-nice attitude from so many is just blatant jealousy or that old habit of criticising the big boy that so many seem to revel in for no reason.
And to finish, lets consider sales to date of the platforms. iPhone = 13 million (2G+3G). Symbian = about 250 million across over 297 phone models. 'Nuff said :)
James Whatley here, author of 'the review above' (although it's clearly a 'point of view' based on stats and releases plus a large dose of prior experience with Nokia handsets).
I thought I'd address some of your points:
1) "The review above compares the N97 camera to some mythical 8MP device"
- Where does it do that? I wrote the thing and I'm pretty sure no reference to 'mythical devices' was made. I think what I actually pointed out was that Nokia ARE NOT jumping on the 8MP bandwagon. Go have a read, I'll wait.
2) 'How about comparing it to the iPhone camera?'
- Well what'd be the point in that? We all know the iPhone camera is crap, everyone knows that and unfortunately this piece *isn't* an iPhone vs N97 post. Nor is it a link-baiting "OMG iPhone KillerZ!" post either for that matter. Merely a point of view on what I think could be the next big thing from Nokia.
3) 'You've just got to laugh at the other comments here criticising software that is 6 months away from being complete (not counting future firmware updates)...'
- So two things here; first that 6mths thing? Dude, have you *read* my N96 article? (I link to it in the piece above - go on, go take a look - I'll wait, again) That phone was 8mths in the making (from announcement to shipping) and by the time it got here the firmware was still guff!
This is something that we have come to expect from Nokia and, as I said in the post above, (you have read it right?) it is something that I really, really hope they get right this time.
The second point refers to the '..not counting firmware updates...' comment. Brilliant. Love it. Talk about give a guy enough rope. Dude, ask ANY normal high street walking, £30pcm spending mobile user 'Excuse me mate, what firmware have you got?' - 'Are you up to date?' - 'Have you updated your firmware lately?' - he/she will look at you like you are from Mars. I know this because I ask this question of my N95 owning buddies (and perfect strangers too - go on, go watch the show and you'll see - I don't mind waiting... ahem) on an almost weekly basis. Until Nokia get the PUSH UPDATES working (which they are close to - go look up a company called Red Bend, that's right - research - want me to wait here?) then this argument is a misnomer. I'm sorry, but it is.
4) 'The N97 also makes Windows Mobile, and devices running it, pail into insignificance...'
- Have you played with an N97? Do you *really* know that it makes Windows Mobile 'pail(sic) into insignificance' ? REALLY?
5) 'Blatant Jealousy'
- Right, where's that then? I'm dying to find out...
6) 'And to finish, lets consider sales to date of the platforms. iPhone = 13 million (2G+3G). Symbian = about 250 million across over 297 phone models.'
- Er... This is obviously a mathematical error. 297phones vs 2phones. What?! Sales of the former outweigh the latter?! WOW! What other breaking news stories are you going to bring us today?!
*sigh*
Caught me with 10mins to spare, I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls. Dude, if you're not here to have a constructive conversation then you're in the wrong place.
Really. Ask ANYONE on this site, *I* am a Nokia Fan. The post above is based on opinion and experience. I don't mind discussing it at all, hell - that's why I write here - the discussion is always more interesting than the posts, but if you want to get offensive and act like a muppet - then you may as well be living in your own reality distortion field.
Whatley out...
Calm down Mr Whately, your preview is very good, and I'm sure you're an (un?)acknowledged Nokia expert. My response was only partially directed at your preview. It was also in response to the typical Nokia-bashing comments that we see here, and elsewhere. No that sentence does not mean I am a blind Nokia fanboy. I love to criticise as much as praise ;-) Seriously, I just like to see some fairness. I think there's too much judgment going on based on a press release, and yes, previous experience. Lets judge the device when it appears, and not give opinions (even implied ones) of a device none of us has handled, and that is 6 months out.
OK, I'll take the 8MP camera sentence at face value and not read any implication into it. Fair enough.
You hilight the N96 firmware. Sure, that had some problems. But it's not a leading S60 handset in terms of sales or mass market appeal. I disagree that most or all S60 based handsets are buggy to the point of significantly impacting usability (I'm not sure what other metric to use) upon release.
Your reply about firmware updates is fair enough - Joe Bloggs often won't or can't do it. But you're missing the point that new firmwares make it into released handsets at the point of sale, so no updating required.
N97 vs. WinMo, I'm comparing specs, user feedback over years, market share, and MS history of appallingly crap software (fact rather than bias).
Jealousy - this is not a reference to anything you wrote (shock, horror! ;-) but rather a prevailing attitude amongst non-Nokia owners whenever Nokia release high-spec new handsets. iPhone owners for one seem to be constantly on the defensive, and yes, in more places than just this site and this story's comments.
The comparison of sales of the platform is in response to the tide of undying hype and love that every new iPhone release enjoys, from users and from the media, and that WinMo and other platforms (e.g. Android) get to a lesser extent. It's an attempt to put just a teeny little bit of perspective on things. Just to say, lets look at things in context, shall we. Symbian constantly gets stick. And I agree with that stick pretty often - it's quite often deserved. But if there's going to be stick, there's got to be carrot too, and things like comparative sales figures of the different platforms do often get mentioned. iPhone-lovers (media or users) are most guilty of that, living as they do in a hype-distorted reality.
> I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls
Well, despite not being a fanboy troll (I think I've made a case for my points, you may disagree ;-), you have certainly entertained me, thank you.
Calm down Mr Whately, your preview is very good, and I'm sure you're an (un?)acknowledged Nokia expert. My response was only partially directed at your preview. It was also in response to the typical Nokia-bashing comments that we see here, and elsewhere. No that sentence does not mean I am a blind Nokia fanboy. I love to criticise as much as praise ;-) Seriously, I just like to see some fairness. I think there's too much judgment going on based on a press release, and yes, previous experience. Lets judge the device when it appears, and not give opinions (even implied ones) of a device none of us has handled, and that is 6 months out.
OK, I'll take the 8MP camera sentence at face value and not read any implication into it. Fair enough.
You hilight the N96 firmware. Sure, that had some problems. But it's not a leading S60 handset in terms of sales or mass market appeal. I disagree that most or all S60 based handsets are buggy to the point of significantly impacting usability (I'm not sure what other metric to use) upon release.
Your reply about firmware updates is fair enough - Joe Bloggs often won't or can't do it. But you're missing the point that new firmwares make it into released handsets at the point of sale, so no updating required.
N97 vs. WinMo, I'm comparing specs, user feedback over years, market share, and MS history of appallingly crap software (fact rather than bias).
Jealousy - this is not a reference to anything you wrote (shock, horror! ;-) but rather a prevailing attitude amongst non-Nokia owners whenever Nokia release high-spec new handsets. iPhone owners for one seem to be constantly on the defensive, and yes, in more places than just this site and this story's comments.
The comparison of sales of the platform is in response to the tide of undying hype and love that every new iPhone release enjoys, from users and from the media, and that WinMo and other platforms (e.g. Android) get to a lesser extent. It's an attempt to put just a teeny little bit of perspective on things. Just to say, lets look at things in context, shall we. Symbian constantly gets stick. And I agree with that stick pretty often - it's quite often deserved. But if there's going to be stick, there's got to be carrot too, and things like comparative sales figures of the different platforms do often get mentioned. iPhone-lovers (media or users) are most guilty of that, living as they do in a hype-distorted reality.
> I don't normally entertain misinformed fanboy trolls
Well, despite not being a fanboy troll (I think I've made a case for my points, you may disagree ;-), you have certainly entertained me, thank you.
Fanboy troll? Not me squire. I dare venture that I am more informed than yourself about these things, but lets not turn this into a contest ;-)
Kind regards,
Alex
Or the Astra a better car than Aston Martin.
'nuff said.
But you knew I was going to say that.
I'm reluctant to say anything nice because Nokia, a class leader as you point out, should do better on its software. Hardware, is I agree, very good from Nokia.
James, I need to be reading reviews, not uninformed and biased speculation based on your reading a press release, whether I've touched a raw nerve with my response or not. I look forward to reading your balanced review when the device is out. And if it's crap, I'll be first to ask Nokia to do a bit better next time - and anyway, the market will doubtless vote with it's wallet.
All the best!
Nokia have excellent sales figures DESPITE their operating system. People rightly buy them for the good looks, excellent ergonomics and bombproof reliability. My party piece when debating hardware with iPhone users is to throw my 6500 classic at the wall and invite them to do the same with their iPhone. To date i have only had to glue the plastic top piece back down and it still works flawlessly.
I do not and will not use an S60 device because the usability at all levels of the operating system is absolutely rubbish. S60 always requires pouring over the manual to figure out how to do simple tasks and figure out where this and that setting has moved to since the preceding N something or other. The fact that there is a constant too and fro between third party developers and the Firmware updates because one breaks a piece of functionality and then the OS update breaks the app etc makes a total mockery of all the hard work Nokia do designing and building great hardware.
I hope that the newly formed Symbian Foundation will correct this cycle of FAIL but really suspect that it can't/won't. Just give up with your flaky code and get with the programme. Either write your own highly optimised and streamlined custom Linux OS or bite the bullet and use the one you can have right now. Android.
Oh yes, Alex Kerr. I for one would really like you to disclose what your vested interest in Nokia/Symbian is, care to share?
The problem - as I see it - is that Nokia just doesn't have the focus for something like this. They have too many phones with too many disparate options to begin to have a comprehensive strategy.
Look at the N810 - a great device which is floundering because the 6* people who were working on it full time have now moved to other things. There's a rabid fan community who are hamstrung by Nokia's lack of effort.
I want to like this device - but I'm afraid it will be an N95 8GB style disappointment. Yes, that's right, disappointment. A device with so much promise which is ultimately let down by a company who want me to upgrade my hardware on the promise that they'll get it right next time.
Hmmmm.... I'm more bitter than I thought. Time to step away from the keyboard.
T
*I guess
(I am obliged to say that I work for Vodafone - but this is my personal opinion.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmmorrison/3077805...
Nokia Conversations' "the great Fondle Video":http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AD-elt8MN3I
I'm very impressed with how far Nokia have come but I'm also in the hopeful but sceptical camp.
I like the look of this, a lot. I have recently bought an iPhone despite being a bit of a Nokia lover (I live in Japan and the iPhone looked like the best choice, Nokias are available, but not well supported by the carrier, Softbank). What I used to love about Nokia was the ease-of-use, the interface and the fact that I could get geeky and customise it myself. Apple seem to have nailed this.
If I was in the UK now, I would be regretting my decision, because this phone looks like exactly what I would want. It just remains to be seen if it is as ergonomic and magical as it could be.
Also: am I the only one that is glad his distractions are a few button-presses away, rather than constantly tempting him?
The beauty of the widgetized home screen is also that it should be based on the Web RunTime Kit which the recent N-Series devices support. And best thing about this? You only need to know how to write html and program some simple Javascript to build an app. Nice. :)) - Not a lot of people know that.
I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of these. Having fallen in love with the N85 way before I got one, then loving the N800 and N810, it's the perfect hybrid of these, for me (I have never had an E Series)