Mobile Industry Review - Latest Comments in A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Tom Smith — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:28:23 -0000

You wouldn't have John Smith's number would you?
http://www.theotherblog.com/Articles/2008/07/22...

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

technokitten — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:53:25 -0000

I agree with everything Terence Eden has to say regarding the CPW/o2/Apple debacle.
It's unfair to blame CPW for everything anyway - and despite the awfulness of it all, a ton of iphones were still shifted.

Re my post about CPW, if you follow the links, you'll find that CPW *do* have people watching this and paid attention and contacted Ian Delaney to sort out his billshock problem. And they did it well. The problem with this of course is that it couldn't have been fixed by the customer service staff at the call centre or in-store. Rather it was because Ian and a few of his friends blogged about it that it came to the attention of a member of CPW staff. Most people do not blog. Most people would never write about their customer service problems on the internet. And even if they did, it doesn't solve whatever problems there are back at base anyway.

This stuff isn't easy and when you're dealing with super-large companies with many 1000s of staff, it's nigh on impossible. That's not to say you shouldn't try and sometimes you'll even succeed, but it will never be perfect.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

TerenceEden — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:12:27 -0000

Some longish thoughts...

Overall, I agree. There needs to be more human-voices interacting with the community. But here are some reasons why it won't / can't always happen

1) Evangelism can only work in small pockets. You can evangelise for SpinVox because it's a relatively small company. No one person in O2 can know SMS, phone configuration, Voicemail, email access broadband, bluetooth, iPhone, SIMs, etc. I'm a big mobile geek and I immerse myself in this stuff and I couldn't answer questions on half the stuff my corporate overlords (Vodafone) provide. So you now get into the situation where you need an evangelist for every distinct product - that costs more money. And now, when you moan on your blog that voicemail isn't working - you expect the voicemail evangelist to know when the Nokia N97 will be coming out and how to configure Shozu on your Sagem.

2) Apple and O2 have sold out of iPhones. If that's the cost of poor customer service - sign me up. A few people may have returned them, but probably no more than their usual return rate. When you have a monopoly position, you can get away with murder. If the iPhone were available on several networks, there would have been an exodus away from O2 after this debacle. Will people hold a grudge against O2 and Apple? Yeah, for about 6 months. Then the iPhone 4G will come out, or there's a good deal on O2 and people will return like a dog to its vomit.

3) Outside of the fanatics, the general public will have only heard "Queues at iPhone launch". Queues == popular.

4) Evangelists are good - but one of the fundamental problems they run up against is lack of internal ownership. There are products in every company which have been released and no longer have an owner. No one to care if they fail or if they need upgrading to work with Vista. This is a problem in any large business and, even with high level support, evangelists can't easily change.

5) I really *really* like the idea of evangelists. In sorting out quick fix problems, engaging the community and raising awareness of new products; I think they're great. The only problem is when they get locked into a losing battle. If the company has made a huge cock-up and they can't / won't apologise for it, they're seen as shills. If they publicly argue with unreasonable customers they look like idiots. There are so many pitfalls that make it hard to sell evangelism in a positive light.

6) Some companies / products don't want feedback. They don't care what you think. The product shipped. Timescales were reached. KPIs on target. Why should a company expend any energy on engaging with people? We'll get a market research agency in for that. What do we care if people find the product hard to use - they're still paying £x per month.

I'm rather deliberately playing Devil's Advocate here - I think there are more opportunities for good customer relations than we've ever had before. But it's a really hard sell.

For anyone in the mobile industry, I recommend reading the Vodafone eForum (other customer forums are available) http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/ to see the sort of problems that NorMobs run up against and how evangelists can tackle them.

(All views are my own etc)

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Ricky Cadden — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:44:46 -0000

I think, for the companies reading this, that an important factor to remember about having an Evangelist is that they're not *solely* useful as a janitor, to go around cleaning up messes. By having someone with a constant thumb on the pulse of your online userbase, these Evangelists can also be a great source of new ideas, feature requests, or anything else.

Companies often pay big bucks for consumer research, and only hire Evangelists who are willing to put on the janitors jumpsuit on and wheel their mop bucket around the internet, forever cleaning up messes, without being heard on what's causing the messes in the first place.

It's an entirely different way to conduct business, but I think it's much better.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Peter Cooper — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:19:51 -0000

Regarding #1, totally. I cancelled my order with CPW and am no longer buying the iPhone. Major buyers premorse on this one. The buck stops at the top, and if Apple can't even acknowledge what's going on, why am I going to have confidence they won't play nasty with their walled-off DRM-ridden monopolistic phone platform? Before this, I figured they might be able to pull it off, but they're just like any other company now.. just after the buck, no matter how many users get screwed by the henchmen. I remember a time when Apple was not like this.

I've spent almost 10 grand with Apple in the past 18 months, and I'm seriously considering leaving the platform. They've gotten too big and are leaking trust and goodwill everywhere.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Alfie — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:41:06 -0000

BE= quite literally the best service level and level of customer service I've experienced anywhere. Ever.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

andrewgrill — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:06:26 -0000

James, excellent points as always and perhaps the SpinVox crew are starting to understand what you actually do..... ;-)

The issue for me is when "evangelists" are actually PR people. Don't get me wrong, PR's do a lovely job, but most of them are NOT using social networking in a really active way in their personal time (some are and you know who you are..) but we actually need to think about not media training, but evangelism training.

Could be seen as an oxymoron because evangelists generally don't need training in what they do. I've also seen people who have had media training die a horrible death on stage or in front of the media.

I'm personally very different - I love talking to the media, presenting to large audiences and being an evangelist - but no-one has ever trained me.

The Wikipedia definition of a technology evangelist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist states "Technical evangelists may act, officially or unofficially, on behalf of a company or organisation, or on a personal basis, for instance".

Perhaps it would be safer to have voluntary evangelists - if you force them to evangelise - aren't they then just PR people in disguise?

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

smstextnews — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:17:15 -0000

Hugh Davies is a good chap!

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Ian Crocombe — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:56:39 -0000

Great article and super timely, if you invest money in a call centre, shops and a website it's not difficult to listen and engage your customers online. I guess the devil for big traditional corporates will be their PR & Communications policies and desire to control all external messaging, time to dust off naked conversations again...

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

Vikki Chowney — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:16:28 -0000

I have to say - I do see the benefits of using an independent mediator to liaise with bloggers and customer forums etc. Google alerts are the easiest way to track any form of conversation out there, so why they aren't top of the list for any customer care/relationship manager - I'll never know. Actually, they probably are for many - but maybe this method just needs a little more visibility with senior management? If a CEO/CTO is getting those alerts as well, they'll be asking questions down the line as to why these consumers aren't being responded to.

As pointed out below, there are many already getting it right. I remember sitting through a very interesting presentation by Hugh Davies @ 3 about his use of this method. He has dedicated resources purely devoted to responding to blogs. It's just obvious to him that this needs to be done. And more and more, I'm seeing 'web 2.0' businesses spring up with a team to do this already in place. For those within corporate organisations, I think there is still a need for Education.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

HeavyLight — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:26:25 -0000

Of course you're right, Dude.
O2 and, to a lesser extent, CPW should by now have added comments to every one of the pained articles here on SMStn by now, even if only to apologise for the cock-ups.

Dunno about calling them evangelists tho' -- a less right-on title might help their wider adoption among the Luddites.

Keep at it, mate. You know it makes sense!
:)

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

whatleydude — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:32:57 -0000

I understand Qik use getsatisfaction - SEE!

These tools are out there, use them!

:)

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

whatleydude — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:54:36 -0000

Paul Walsh, The Irish Opportunist, just tried to leave a comment ...
(he's not getting on with Disqus Ewan!)

...and ended up writing a full post himself -

http://paulfwalsh.com/carephone-warehouse-and-i...

Paul writes (after his rant about disqus):

"I’d rather encourage all staff into becoming evangelists, but that will only happen when they care enough about the brand to become brand guardians. Having nominated evangelists only works when they’re evangelising specific technologies - like you get with companies such as Microsoft and Apple. By demonstrating that you care to educate and listen to people about your technology, you end up doing the marketing bit indirectly and in a much more discrete manner.

My advice to Carphone Warehouse is for the senior management team to take stock of public perception and put in place a plan to change the culture across the company. They have a serious culture issue which I believe is management’s failure to evolve as the company changed direction over the past few years. Only then will staff care enough to treat customers as customers and not second class citizens.

Carephone should consider hiring new management, not tech evangelists. Change must come from the top, even if instigated and encouraged by those on the ground."

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

whatleydude — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:44:52 -0000

If you're having problems with SpinVox then by all means get in touch, I'll be happy to help.
Not sure what you're point is on the dog food front, I use SpinVox every day!

(and my Google Alerts are working just fine)

;)

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

whatleydude — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:39:59 -0000

You make a valid point.

The evangelist *does* need complete buy-in from across the entire company to be able to go ahead and cut through the crap.

It not only helps with actually getting stuff done but it also further increases the relationship building process...

If the evangelist is seen as someone who's voice is just lost in the noise then they you may as well as well be shouting at a brick wall.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

peeebeee — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:37:54 -0000

Telefonica very sensibly have left Be pretty much alone brand and culture-wise since the acquisition. I worked with some of the old-school Be folks since before they were Be (Avatar Broadband), their approach is quite refreshing. They could teach their sister company a thing or three.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

whatleydude — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:34:14 -0000

Two responses I received on Twitter -

1) Twitter user @vodaclone (aka our friend Terence Eden)

"Agree in principle - but (DA here) has this saga cost O2 Apple CPW? People are not returning their phones/cancelling contracts"

2) Twitter user @technokitten (aka our friend Helen Keegan)

"CPW does have folks looking at this. iPhone launch was so bad, that whatever u put in place wouldn't be enough. http://url.ie/j73"

So..

1) *Actual* costs, yeah maybe... and that's a big MAYBE, (I doubt very much they'll release the cancellation figures) ...but what about brand trust? Once bitten, twice shy my man.

2) That link delivers another damning case against CPW/O2 from Helen. Ouch.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

kbateman — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:29:36 -0000

For those companies that can't or won't setup their own forums to solve these sort of problems, there is always http://getsatisfaction.com/ which would be a simple way to get things working better for customers online.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

tarek — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:29:31 -0000

Preach Mr. Whatley, Preach.

You can easily replace CPW in the post above with any consumer-focused company, Evanglesits are needed all round.

Having been an Evangelist myself I know just how much we can change the public's perception of a company and help through the rough times. Online, people are for more likely to critisise than to praise so it's the ideal place to figure out what your customers are saying about you, what problems they're facing, what they expect from you and much more precious information that is just out there waiting to be picked-up and acknowledged.

Companies have even *paid* for this type of feedback in the past. An Evangelist can help identify all of this and not only be a human face to the company but can also feed all that information back into the company to help improve their products and services.

I'm trying not to go off into a rant of my own so I'll cut this short. Evangelism is a role that is only going to become more and more prevalent especially in the technology industry and this is a great thing. James and other high-profile evangelists are certainly helping to spread the word about how useful having someone in that role can be to a company. Let's hope that more high profile companies start to take notice.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

danlane — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:23:32 -0000

Interestingly enough, Be Un Limited are owned by O2... but I can't say a bad thing about Be, use it at home and love their service!

Didn't know they were on Twitter though!

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

danlane — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:20:55 -0000

I use Simply Mail Solutions to host my e-mail and they've been EXCELLENT. A year ago, after leaving a comment on this very blog about an issue I was having with RoadSync and SimplyMS's Zimbra server I received an e-mail from Keith, their Technical Director that started with "I always do a weekly search around the web in case any of our customers are having problems that we could help with... and noticed your blog comment" and then went on to offer some help before finishing with "Anyway, apologies for the intrusion but if there’s anything you think SMS could help with, you know where I am.".

I'm not saying that my experience with them has been without problems but every time I've needed to contact them I've had a prompt and intelligent reply. Combined with the pro-active approach mentioned above this ensures that I'm far more forgiving when they do experience issues and that I'll be using their services for a long time to come yet and so should you! - http://www.simplyms.com

Now O2 and Carphone Warehouse on the other hand... just you wait until they mess up my account again, I'm going to be all over them like James Whatley on a social network!

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

smstextnews — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:19:13 -0000

That's a bit smart, Martin! I like it!

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

smstextnews — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:16:11 -0000

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

cem — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:55:11 -0000

oh cool but spinvox doesnt even work properly. or this message again in spinvox translation: oar coo but spinvox doesnt event lurk property. Does your google alert pick this up mr whatley? ps pay him LESS until he eats his own dogfood.

Re: A tech evangelist’s perspective on the o2/CPW saga

AJ — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:22:03 -0000

Hmmm...it sounds good in theory but I am not sure if it would work in practice unless the evangelist had real authority to cut through the shit, apply a little credit and do whatever it takes to make customers happy again.

It reminds of that initiative years ago for London Underground to be more responsive and informative in the case of delays. If only they would they would tell us why we are stuck in a tunnel, the argument would go, at least we would feel that we were in the loop and not being neglected. In the end it turned out that the announcements only made people even angrier than before - mainly because the drivers were as badly informed as the passengers in a lot of cases and could only ever be fairly vague which really doesnt help that much.

For something like this to work you would need to treat this really seriously. I am always surprised that mobile companies dont do this more.